Why do MMORPGs suck?

'Yack it up.'
Naminator
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Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 6:47 pm

Post by Naminator » Thu Sep 14, 2006 6:57 pm

OK listen to me you shit for brains!
WTF are you talking about? Did you even read what I freaking say?
If a person is better than another then thats no reason on calling the nerfs, and what? you think NCSoft have just did the nerfs because some freaking 12 yr old have given them a complain that some Stalker or w/e owned him? Think this your head not your ass my friend, big companies dont make this kind of decisions because 1 or 2 ppl game them a complain, there was prabobly like few 100 or 1,000 ppl compain about w/e should be nerfed!
Your talking compleat F*ucking nonsense, you keep saying that if a person is better than another then the better one should get nerfed! You think your fucking smarter than NCSoft guys? Just because you write some BS stories and long ass posts!
And guess what? I do know whats going on, and that sh*t about your hunter killing the mage with a help of a guard is BS like I said! Because if that mage had anithingeles but shit for barins, he would just Polimorph the guard and owened you with like 1 hit! And dont say he cant own you with one hit, because a lvl 60 monster can own a lvl 30 hunter with no problem, so lets not even talk about a lvl 60 mage.
Your calling me a noob for what?? because I said that your story is a BS?(wich it is) or because Im the only one here who is giving you a reasonable explanations and you just cant take it??
And BTW how did you own me??? you did nothing you moron, you just said the same F*cking thing you did in your other posts, read them over and youll see that its the same shit only explained differently!
Soooo explain me once again, HOW DID IT RUINED THE GAME? And be direct about it, do not try to hide you real reason in a freaking big ass post.
Tell me how many ppl left??? because for some reason I keep f*cking seing sh*t loads of ppl in every city on every freaking corner of the game, where ever I go theres ppl there, on every server. So how many ppl did really leave?
ohhh and i just owened your ass btw and prooved to devs that your nothing but a pretender geek, who is desperetly trying to bring the most hated problem in every game OVER HERE!

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Fork
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Post by Fork » Thu Sep 14, 2006 8:05 pm

I would like to keep the poll open for a little bit longer, it seems this thread will not be locked :)

[quote:c4b4b1203a=\"Merylnn\"]But here's another little bit if info you might've missed. The CoHemu is going to be open source.[/quote:c4b4b1203a]

It already is :)

Merlynn
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Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 1:09 am

Post by Merlynn » Fri Sep 15, 2006 12:54 am

Yeah. I can tell you're a smart one. Let me point something out.

Guard*S*. Plural. More than one. Further supported by the use of pronouns such as "they" and "them". There were about 5 or 6 guards and they were elites. If you know WoW,you know elites hurt no matter what level you are unless you have at least Tier 1 gear,probably Tier 2 if you're a mage. However,he never did use his sheep,or most of his powers. On the other hand,they took him down pretty quick. So,yeah,he probably wasn't the best level 60 out there. Still,I took him down while you'd be shitting yourself over his level. :p Now I wish I'd taken a video of it.

Actually,that's how a lot of nerfs take place. A bunch of idiots who can't play see someone who can play rip ass and suddenly,it's an "uber build". Remember my example with Viper and WFUT? The squeaky wheel gets the grease. Except at NCSoft. I don't think anyone's really figured out why they did the nerfs. It's not for PvP cause most of the changes don't effect PvP,just PvE. They claim it's to stop power leveling,but the fact is,with the size of the random spawns,you can largely just street sweep and gain huge ammounts of levels in very little time. My biggest problem with CoH was trying NOT to out level content. And really,why are you stopping power leveling only to turn around and offer "double XP weekends"? Where's the sense?

No,the nerfs imposed by NCSoft weren't about balence,fairness,or stopping "uber builds". They were about slowing players down. They wanted to stop people from getting bored. Instead of offering more options,like,say,being able to choose any power for any AT and giving the ATs various bonuses and weaknesses to balence them,they chose,instead,to further and further limit the players. Which really only lowers the enjoyment of the content already availible. I mean,really,you have yet to explain to me how everything's more fair rather than just less powerful for everyone. It makes the game boring and that,chuckles,is an unforgivable sin for a game.

They have maybe a 100,000 subscribers at any time. I'd say about 30% are probably noobs who are using a free trial or just bought the game to try it out and won't be there next month. The rest are the "hardcore" crowd. They either agree with anything NCSoft does or continue to play dispite them or they just have friends on there. For that last one,I'd just get their contact info and dump the game. CoH has 7 servers. 2 of those are marginally full on any given day. WoW has around 60+ servers and adding and they're packing them full. Why? No wild nerfing yet. It's the same reason SWG lost a huge pack of subscribers recently. They nerfed the fuck out of their game,limited options,and destoryed the right to choose and it nearly destroyed them. CoH still HAS players,but nowhere near as many as they used to.

So to put it simply,the nerfs,because they hit ALL builds and not just the uber builds,made more builds useless because,not being uber builds,they couldn't afford the loss of power,thus becoming underpowered. I never ran a Tank,but the GDN still hit me because my Blaster relied on Stealth as one of the few things left that let him survive a fight with NPCs. Why did my Blaster need a defense hit? Is it a crime that Blasters survive the first attack? It must be cause if he doesn't kill everyone with his first hits,he's dead. If even 2 MINIONS survive,he's dead. Can't escape,can't take the hits,and there's no garentee he'll be able to hit enough to kill the guys after him. Oh,there's still some loop holes left,but they'll be closed as soon at the devs can figure out how to nerf them. And I don't mean "figure out how to do it without pissing of the players". I mean "figure out how to code it to do that".

But the most damning piece of evidence is this. They had to lower XP debt in missions because spawns would overlap,making them too numberous for a player(s) to deal with. Why? Cause the heroes were now too underpowered to handle even Heroic with a concept build. When your build can't handle Heroic,you're not "balenced",you're gimped. So,instead of easing back the nerfs to something more reasonable or fix the spawns so they don't overlap on Heroic,they just cut back on XP debt. There's some great thinking.

So to sum up,yes,I'm smarter than the NCSoft guys cause I can see what they're doing wrong with the game. I understand why players are leaving the game. I can grasp WHY people are bored and I know a "double XP weekend" isn't going to fix it. The difference between NCSoft and me is I know how to entertain. I know how to keep people interested. I reeled you in,after all.

Fork: You already put up? Guess I need to keep up with news on the project too. :p Well,if it's locked,it's locked. But if you ask me,if he really wanted to stop it,he'd stop replying. That he doesn't stop says he wants to get "the last word in" rather than be the bigger man who walks away. I don't do it cause it's fun taunting the nerf herder. :p

Naminator
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Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 6:47 pm

Post by Naminator » Fri Sep 15, 2006 1:58 am

Dude listen theres a very simple explanation why they dont nerf the game, because the Blizzard guys are way freaking smarter than NCSoft and they made the game perfect from the start and they just keep adding content, and instead of making the characters addapt to the game, they are making the game addapt to the chars.
And any way, do you really know why ppl are upset about the nerfs?? Not because it became boring, but because its a simple human nature to get used to good thing quickly, and once they get used to it they cant heandly beeing thrown back and striped away from their power. In officials L2 (L2 is an NCSoft game btw) server, in C3 Dagger classes rulled the servers, now C4 came out and they Nerfed the daggers the F out and now Mages are in their place, Because of the new C4 skills mages Dominate with an Iron fist.
Now if you would play this game after the nerfs took place without knowing how it was before, Ill garanty you that you would never know the difference. And why is that you may say? Its because you never expirienced the pleasure of beeing so powerfull so you would never even give a damn. But on the other hand, if you got switched to server with out nerfs, you would be amazed how much more powerfull you are and prabobly would think this is great, but if your like me and some other ppl you might off said "OMG now this is kinda too easy" same thing as going to a very high rate server, I dont like it because its pure PvP, you got everything and your the highest lvl and the only thing is left for you to do is going arond collecting PvP points! Now thats what I call boooooring!

EDIT: Ohhh and keep this topic up, Im thinking this is the only post that gets some action on this forum and me and Merlynn are intertaining this whole forum :D

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Fork
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Post by Fork » Fri Sep 15, 2006 3:07 am

[quote:929c77e82c=\"Naminator\"]EDIT: Ohhh and keep this topic up, Im thinking this is the only post that gets some action on this forum and me and Merlynn are intertaining this whole forum[/quote:929c77e82c]

Now only if you can spell :)

[quote:929c77e82c=\"Merylnn\"]Fork: You already put up? Guess I need to keep up with news on the project too. :p Well,if it's locked,it's locked. But if you ask me,if he really wanted to stop it,he'd stop replying. That he doesn't stop says he wants to get "the last word in" rather than be the bigger man who walks away. I don't do it cause it's fun taunting the nerf herder. :p[/quote:929c77e82c]

Yessir: http://forum.cohemu.net/viewtopic.php?t=386

http://forum.cohemu.net/viewtopic.php?p=3454#3454

http://forum.cohemu.net/viewtopic.php?t=388

Merlynn
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Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 1:09 am

Post by Merlynn » Fri Sep 15, 2006 3:58 am

Ok,let me put it this way. Lets take your dagger thing. Now,imagine,instead of simply nerfing daggers,they nerfed every weapon. Without any real logic behind it. Just fuck over everything. That's pretty much the kind of nerfs we're talking about with CoH. So you not only nerf the uber builds,you nerf the experimental builds too. You nerf everything from concept to proven uber. This kind of nerf only hurts the game cause you end up pissing off anyone who wanted to try anything different.

Good games have rules. Without rules,you don't really have a game. So before you start making your game,you need to put down rules. What is each ability supposed to do? How is each class different? How does A compare to B? Each ability needs to have advantages and disadvantages. These need to be planned out before line 1 of code is written. For example,daggers are fast,but they don't do much damage. A 2 handed sword is slower,but does massive damage. A staff is faster than a 2 handed sword,but does less damage,but mages find them to be excellent focuses for magic. And so on. Each is different,but in the end,they all excell at something. And every class can use several weapons so it all evens out.

Players will tweak and improve their weapons. They'll find a way to make their weapons better to give themselves an advantage,all within the rules. What defines something as overpowered is when it simply goes beyond what it should do. When it simply gets to the point of ridiculously strong versus the effort it took to get it. Were the daggers overpowered or was everything else underpowered? It's a simple matter of perspective. I find PvE is a good measuring stick cause it's static. But then you get into taking advantage of the AI versus truely overpowered. Then you have to ask what makes them overpowered? And how can you fix it without messing up everyone else who uses daggers that don't take advantage of some exploit?

WoW wasn't "perfect when it came out". Even now,WoW is under constant tweaking to make it better. The reason it's still top dog is A) a huge fan base B) a well thought out system and C) they don't use major,wide-scale nerfs,which is also why you never notice the nerfs they do use,they don't turn the whole game upside down. Of course,even Blizzard will bow to the pressure of players. Check the notes on Burning Crusade. Horde Paladins and Alliance Shamans. They couldn't "balence 2 different classes against each other",so they're giving them both. It's a bad idea brought about by bad players. Why? Well,let me put it this way.

In PvP,Shamans are very powerful. Some would say over powered. They use their high burst damage,mail armor,and melee powers to take down most anyone. They know how to play PvP and they do it well. On the other hand,for some reason,when Shamans go into high end raid PvE content,they suddenly want to be healers and buffers. For some god only knows reason,they want to switch out from attacker to defender. And Shamans SUCK at defense. They're offensive. Pure and simple. So why they suddenly want to play like Paladins,who excell in the support role,is beyond me. Paladins are Priests in plate,Shamans are Mages in mail. But they don't want to come up with their own PvE roles,so they complain about how "unfair" it is.

So now they have their wish. The Alliance finds out how Shamans have it in the end game and Horde gets Paladins. And the first step towards the end of WoW is taken. Some are all excited about it,I'm not. Sure,it's more options,but at the expense of what defines the 2 factions.

So it's all about how one precieves it. A superhero game,by necessity,needs to have room for all levels of superheroes. From the Batmen to the Supermen. Superheroes have a kind of unlimited potential,because regular heroes come from all walks of life and superheroes even more so. But a superhero is still a hero. An ideal. If one comes across a situation they can't handle and have to call for help on the lowest setting,it takes away from the superhero experience. On the other hand,in a game like WoW,where one is part of a larger group and isn't expected to rampage over a huge numbers advantage,it's more acceptable to take things a little slower and be more careful about being swarmed.

Naminator
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 6:47 pm

Post by Naminator » Fri Sep 15, 2006 4:47 am

[quote="Fork"][quote:0bcf117a55=\"Naminator\"]EDIT: Ohhh and keep this topic up, Im thinking this is the only post that gets some action on this forum and me and Merlynn are intertaining this whole forum[/quote:0bcf117a55]

Now only if you can spell :)

whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaatttt Evaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!1111111shift+1shit+1

DarkJin
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 11:15 pm

Post by DarkJin » Fri Sep 15, 2006 11:02 am

[quote="Naminator"][quote:74b177c61f=\"Fork\"][quote:74b177c61f=\"Naminator\"]EDIT: Ohhh and keep this topic up, Im thinking this is the only post that gets some action on this forum and me and Merlynn are intertaining this whole forum[/quote:74b177c61f]

Now only if you can spell :)

whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaatttt Evaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!1111111shift+1shit+1[/quote:74b177c61f]

lol

[quote:74b177c61f=\"Merlynn\"]
They wanted to stop people from getting bored. Instead of offering more options,like,say,being able to choose any power for any AT and giving the ATs various bonuses and weaknesses to balence them,they chose,instead,to further and further limit the players. Which really only lowers the enjoyment of the content already availible. I mean,really,you have yet to explain to me how everything's more fair rather than just less powerful for everyone. It makes the game boring and that,chuckles,is an unforgivable sin for a game.
[/quote:74b177c61f]

If all the powers were for all the Archetypes then they wouldnt be unique. Seriously what would a scrapper be doing shooting fireballs and healing people with empathy... all the AT have certain hp and atk which is supported by their powers. like Scrappers have medium defense but their buffs make up for it. Blasters are called Blasters because they blast them.

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Fork
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Post by Fork » Fri Sep 15, 2006 11:10 am

[quote:9b4467a793=\"Naminator\"][quote:9b4467a793=\"Naminator\"]EDIT: Ohhh and keep this topic up, Im thinking this is the only post that gets some action on this forum and me and Merlynn are intertaining this whole forum[/quote:9b4467a793]

[quote:9b4467a793=\"Fork\"]Now only if you can spell :)[/quote:9b4467a793]

whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaatttt Evaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!1111111shift+1shit+1[/quote:9b4467a793]

Now you're just being obnoxious, if you haven't already achieved that level already.

Merlynn
Posts: 67
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 1:09 am

Post by Merlynn » Fri Sep 15, 2006 6:53 pm

Look up the "Cause rip-offs will happen" thread. I go over,once again,how the ATs would be different from each other even without "unique powers". It's all about making the *hero* unique rather than the *AT*. You'll generally find it's best to play the AT as it was originally intented,but it'll also let you have more options in how your character works. Give it a read through and tell me what you think.

I'm looking forward to a Katana/Devices Scrapper for some ninja action. :)

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