Why do MMORPGs suck?

'Yack it up.'
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Post by Fork » Fri Sep 15, 2006 8:37 pm

Poll closed, the thread will not be locked, not now anyways.

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Post by Merlynn » Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:57 am

Was that the final numbers on the poll or are you just enjoying us being idiots too much?

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Post by Fork » Sat Sep 16, 2006 2:09 pm

Whatever you'd like to believe sir :)

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Post by DarkJin » Sun Sep 17, 2006 3:49 pm

[quote:7b40807777=\"Merlynn\"]Look up the "Cause rip-offs will happen" thread. I go over,once again,how the ATs would be different from each other even without "unique powers". It's all about making the *hero* unique rather than the *AT*. You'll generally find it's best to play the AT as it was originally intented,but it'll also let you have more options in how your character works. Give it a read through and tell me what you think.

I'm looking forward to a Katana/Devices Scrapper for some ninja action. :)[/quote:7b40807777]

hmm... never thought of it that way lol... good point. But maybe not all the powers available to all ATs. maybe just a couple like some defense buffs for blasters so they can literally pwn without failure every once in a while.

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Post by Merlynn » Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:37 pm

Actually,I don't think it'd be a problem. 1. Most Tank armors have a LOT of toggles which,in turn,means lots of endurance consumed. You'll still have to balence damage output versus keeping up your endurance. Most Blasters with Tank armors would probably end up going with Invul,for it's "automatic defense" powers,or just using toggles which are important against certain foes. Any way you look at it,you have to trade out offense and defense. Of course,it's much more likely Regen will be the number one fav for uber builds of any AT.

2. Since it'd be starting from scratch,we'll have to expect some time tweaking. Especially given the limited resources availible to the project. So it probably won't be perfect out of the box,but if the project lasts long enough,we'll probably see a more fair treatment for everyone of every power level.

But at the end of the day,I'd like to remind everyone the devs only liked my ideas. What ends up happening depends on what the devs choose and what they can do with the code availible. But the first incarnation of CoHemu will probably be just like the official servers to get it up and running,then the tweaks and changes.

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Post by DarkJin » Mon Sep 18, 2006 2:44 am

hmm... my blaster wouldnt have a problem with keeping endurance... only time i ever run out is when i nuke someone... I havent Ran outta end since like lvl 26...
Come to think of it... i could just take regen instead of Tank armors...
Regen is the shit.

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Post by Adrom » Wed Sep 20, 2006 9:35 pm


I'm not an english speaker, cause I'm just an ordinary brazilian guy, but I read all this stuff Mer and Nam wrote, plus other members posts. It took some time, but I acomplished this mission.

Hoping that I'm being understood by everyone, and not writting with too many flaws, I will explain my point about all this flammed discussion.

I agree with Mer. I think I understood what he is trying to say, and what he really wants. And I just got that cause I'm not only a regular MMORPG player, but I'm still a Table RPG player and Master. Plus, I love superheroes RPGs, and always dreamt on play it on computer games. And, saddly, I was disappointed when I realized that City of Heroes isn't the way I dreamt.

Let me explain better:

- CoH follows the standards of the majority of MMORPGs, defining and limiting "classes", with defined and limited list of abilities/powers/skills/etc. I simply does not agree with this kind of standard when the game is about superheroes. Why? Just because one thing: How can you classify Superman inside those ATs? Is he a Tank, or a Blaster? Or, perhaps, he is a god, and does not fit any CoH classification?

That's because, in real RPG (the Table RPG, with books, dices and sheets), we do not separate heroes between classes. You simply design your hero and create it using the vast and complete list of all powers, abilities and skills your construction points allow you to do. So you can make a Superman, or perhaps something completely nonsense, with psy powers mixed to magic and buffs. Why not? Why could not the player decide what he wants to create?

What should really be UNIQUE is EACH character, not the class. Because a unique class has A LOT of exactly equal individuals, taking from them their individuality, and their right to choose what he wants.

Why it does not create problems at the table rpg, and would create at the Online Game? Simply because these companies, such as NCSoft, just intend to make money, as easy as they can. If they try to create a good and rational set of rules, such as DC Heroes RPG, or GURPS Superheroes, they would have a lot of work to do, and it would be way too difficult. So they chose the easiest way.

The reason why they keep Nerfing the game is: MONEY. What they want is to keep players playing and paying indefinetely. If the player achieves the goal quick (the maximum level), he will leave the game and stop playing and paying. But they have no vision or inteligence to create another atractive features to be explored by the players. Instead, they prefer to do the easiest thing: NERF.

Are they spoiling the game? Yes!

Do they give a shit? NO!


Cause they are, probably, creating another game to become the new fever between players, and they are releasing the old NERFED games to other countries, like Brazil. But, to our local reality, price is too high. And does not worth play a game that costs this much.

I would gladly play if it was like Table Superheroes RPGs. But it isn't. And THAT's why I'm here. I just want to play without paying the high fee. Assuming that neither the character appearence creation feature fulfilled my expectatives (it's really great and awesome, but not yet good as it should), I would play the game waiting for someone to release something better.

Nowadays, I'm playing Lineage2 C4, on private. The 'overpowered' build, or uber build, never was the Dagger. It always was the Bow users, such as Silver Rangers, who does massive damages and has huge evasion. Even Mages dies to these guys. In the other side, Monks and Tyrants can atack with higher speed, but lower damages, without good evasion and with no good defense. At C4, they reduced Monks and Tyrants speed, raising the difficulty to level up, and the PVP, almost impossible at C3, became really impossible at C4. Tyrant should have the best evasion, because he is used to hand-to-hand combat. They should also be able to atack with the fastest speed, since they use their "bare hands". But they NERFED Tyrants, and I don't even know why. While Silver Rangers and etc keeps their "overpowered" damage. And, now, the mages gained more space, because they "fixed" bugs at skills.

I think the best RPG game will be that one that will follow perfectly the rules book of a table RPG, or that one with good rules and a vast set of features to explore and use almost without limits. That would be nice to see and play!

The word is FREEDOM, independently of HOW MUCH power you have, but in how stylish and unique you can make your char. Noobs limited range of vision and limited mind only sees OVERPOWER as synonim of FUN. I see style. I'm not interested in huge power, but in features that changes my char into a very interesting char to play. ^^

Best regards! :D

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Post by malign » Wed Sep 20, 2006 10:21 pm


Very good points. I am also with you on this. Unfortunately, without a rewrite of the game client, a custom class is unlikely. That is beyond the scope of this project.

I actually started thinking about this myself just a little over a year ago. I wished that CoH offered something like Ultima Online did with an "Advanced" character. Not a predefined one, like "Mage" or "Blacksmith". I was thinking, "Why not allow us to create an invul/rad tank/blaster hybrid?" It would definetely offer far greater versatility in the game. There would be even more diversity.

I also wish CoH/CoV had something like Freedom Force had. Where you could assign attributes to a character such as cursed or unlucky I think it was. But, you could even it out by selecting a positive attribute for every negative one. It was something like, "Rage - You have a chance to enter a rage when struck, you do more damage, but you are also more apt to take hits." Things like that. It was a very neat concept.

We can only hope the official Cryptic developers implement features such as these.
There is possible hope though. Nemerle and I have talked in the past about creating a game client that would be compatible with the CoHEmu server. It's a long way off and was just an idea, but it is definetely a possibility in the future.


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Post by Adrom » Thu Sep 21, 2006 2:09 am

Very good news, Malign.

I could just tell you about the Lineage emulators... I downloaded one that has some "alternate rules". One of these rules allows all characters to "learn" any skill. So, you can have a Tyrant with Deflect Arrows and some buffs by the double of the SP cost. It's a very interesting rule. And it's applyed server-side. Just think about that.

I can also try to find a link in english. The emulator itself is actually written in english, and works - I think - entirely developed in php, with mySQL database. It allows the server to run on any architecture (windows, Mac, Unix, Linux, etc). Try to take a little look at this... Perhaps the codes and the emulator itself can help you create the CoHemu, assuming that are games with similar engines, since both were made by NC.

I don't know much about details of the CoH game, until because I never played it. I just created a char at your CoHEMU, when it was online. As I said, I did like the char creator feature, but I still think it's not enough, not even visually.

Well... If I could be of any help, I would be pleased to help you guys.

Best Regards!

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Post by iaag » Thu Sep 21, 2006 3:04 am

please lock this thread. Every time I see the orange little icon I think it is something important and it is just some people arguing over nothing thinking they are smart. :( No offense.

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